So new rules....

[janitor]

With the season regular season 3/4 complete... 4 teams recently tied for first, top 10 can win any game any night...would we say success? 

[mrbuzz]

i don't know what all the whining was about. the hockey is still tremendous on most nights. what can they sign, like 18 players jr. b or better? nothing wrong with that.

just from what i've seen, there's probably 7 teams that can realistically win it all. it wouldn't surprise me at all to see multiple upsets in the 1st round.

it will be fun.

[81 Fan]

I would say the new rules are good, look at how tight it is now that Clinton can't buy a championship. Maybe if this rule was in place before they would not have won so many in a row ?

[tburgfan]

Rules seem to have done what was intended and leveled out the playing field. However, I still think regardless of standings Clinton is team to beat. My hometown team Thunder playing great as well and could face Clinton first round yikes! Winner of that serious could be exhausted/beaten up after the 1st round. Anyone's title to win

[ramrod]

So the end of the season is near and it seems that the new rule has indeed done what the league set out to do.... well almost. The standings are tight with just a few points seperating 8th to 1rst. With the exception of two teams the bottom is also fairly tight.
Now the league should look at playing a balanced 26 game schedule, by adding only 4 more games per team all teams could play a home and home with all teams.
Let me explain the significance of playing a balanced schedule
Ripley and Saugeen are fighting it out for first place with the winner finishing with either 36 or 38 points. Both Ripley and Saugeen have played Shallow Lake and Lucknow a combined 5 games.... lets call that an automatic 10 points for each of Ripley and Saugeen. Tilsonburg on the other hand have only played a combined 1 game against the bottom 2 teams and that was against Lucknow for lets say an automatic 2 points. Thats an 8 point difference from what Ripley and Saugeen were given, add 8 points to Tlsonburgs possible 28 points and they are now at 36.... possibly a tie for first.
Now I know there are lots of possibilities that could happen because Ripley and Saugeen would also play 4 more game but you get my drift.
Tilsonburg also only played Ripley just once this year and did not play Saugeen at all, anything could have happened in those games and the points would have been pretty important not to mention the games would have been pretty entertaining.
Than you get into the fact that Seaforth, Shelbourne and Clinton all have 32 points dispite Seaforth and Clinton only getting 6 automatic points again from playing Shallow Lake and Lucknow a combined 3 games while Shelbourne played a combined 5 games for 10 points and again those points are pretty important when you are playing for positioning and home ice advantage in the playoffs.
Ok WOAA lets get this balanced schedule done and than you can truly say that you have leveled the playing field for all the teams. Its only 2 more weekends or less if teams don't take weekends off during the schedule.

[mrbuzz]

i don't think theres any chance to get enough support to play a balanced schedule. the teams at the far reaches of the league...the shallow lakes, tillsonburg, tavi, petrolia, they won't go for that. those are long, expensive bus rides to add to a list of already expensive trips.

the days of a 26 or 28 game schedule are gone and i don't think are ever coming back. that was back when the league was 20-25 teams and you had to play that many just to face everybody in your area twice. i can bet recruiting is a hell of a lot easier if you can have a weekend off in the middle of the season and also not playing 2 games every weekend.

i agree its not fair to have one set of standings and an unbalanced schedule. i also don't know if theres a solution that would pass at the agm. its easy to say tillsonburg and shallow lake should have to play each other, but how many guys are going to make those trips? petrolia goes north with 10 or 11 guys every time.

the cream will always rise to the top. by and large, i would say the teams at the very top of the standings are the best teams in the league, "gimme" points or not.

[thebeancounter]

All good points about scheduling issues and considerations. I think one of the most important factors is that players do not want to play every weekend and they certainly don't want to move to a schedule where they have to play twice most weekends.

I would add that I think there is zero chance of a balanced schedule for the upcoming season, simply due to the fact that Christmas Day is a Friday in 2020 and that will eliminate 2 weekends from having any games. Not a good year to consider adding games to the schedule.

[ramrod]

The points that you two make take me back to what a member of the Radars said to me when informed of the new eligibility restrictions. He said the league was more interested in turning itself into a glorified beer league rather than to grow it into something bigger. He said the league was more concerned about the casual small town jr. C player who wanted to carry on a career playing once a week rather than give a guy who has played a highly competitive level {jr. A or minor pro} a place to continue on playing a high level of hockey. When I read these comments I can't help but to feel that he is right.
When you look at the teams that have problems having players commit to playing it is the lower teams in the league and certainly also the higher end teams have problems getting players to go to Shallow Lake or Lucknow knowing that those games will not be competitive but when you see a Saugeen, Ripley, Durham, Shelbourne, Clinton, Tilsonburg,Seaforth, Minto playing each other, there always seems to be full rosters for those games.
I don't know what the answer is, maybe the teams could play each other once for 13 games and after those 13 games have a seeding where the top 8 play each other again for 7 games having a 20 game schedule and the lower 6 can play each other for 5 games for a 18 game schedule. That at least would be more fair when anointing a league champion.
I certainly hope that the league dosen't further water down the quality of players just so as that the Shallow Lakes and Lucknows etc,etc, can be competitive.

[ogshowtime10]

Feb 3, 2020 13:13:49 GMT -5 ramrod said:

The points that you two make take me back to what a member of the Radars said to me when informed of the new eligibility restrictions. He said the league was more interested in turning itself into a glorified beer league rather than to grow it into something bigger. He said the league was more concerned about the casual small town jr. C player who wanted to carry on a career playing once a week rather than give a guy who has played a highly competitive level {jr. A or minor pro} a place to continue on playing a high level of hockey. When I read these comments I can't help but to feel that he is right.
When you look at the teams that have problems having players commit to playing it is the lower teams in the league and certainly also the higher end teams have problems getting players to go to Shallow Lake or Lucknow knowing that those games will not be competitive but when you see a Saugeen, Ripley, Durham, Shelbourne, Clinton, Tilsonburg,Seaforth, Minto playing each other, there always seems to be full rosters for those games.
I don't know what the answer is, maybe the teams could play each other once for 13 games and after those 13 games have a seeding where the top 8 play each other again for 7 games having a 20 game schedule and the lower 6 can play each other for 5 games for a 18 game schedule. That at least would be more fair when anointing a league champion.
I certainly hope that the league dosen't further water down the quality of players just so as that the Shallow Lakes and Lucknows etc,etc, can be competitive.

To whomever that member of the Radars is... you don't get it, you're an idiot, find a new hobby. That moron seriously thinks people want to watch OR PARTICIPATE in the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Generals? Maybe in Clinton? But not the rest of the league! The intention of the league is to showcase LOCAL talent. Clinton PAID players that should be playing for their HOME teams (Petrolia, Tilsonburg, Saugeen Shores, Minto, Seaforth... just to name a few).

That RUINS equal competitiveness and creates disparity in the league.

Can you turn your brain back on please!?

[janitor]

Interesting points. Good discussion. The added cost to more games is concern. There is some serious cost to running any junior or senior team. In towns like Tavistock where there is Junior and Senior, gotta be tough. Add 4 games, you maybe adding 2-3K to expenses.

There needs to be push to be more than a "beer league". Truth is, it is a long ways from that and you can see it by putting an average Junior C player on the ice with a Senior team. It is obvious quick the talent is high in Senior.

What Andrew Rogers is doing is moving the needle. He is promoting the entire LEAGUE with social media, coverage, video and that is going to raise league awareness. Get a league sponsor pay that guy something to broadcast the message.

As for the original post. The role of the GM has become a skilled spot now. Team need to look at who is coming up, who is staying, who fits where. In past a GM did some recruiting, now it is recruiting who fits, and where they fit in a year or two with other players coming.

[mrbuzz]

the problem with the clinton point of view of making this a minor-pro type league is fine, as long as they are prepared to have the league shrink to 5 or 6 teams.

the big thing is there is no jr. b north of listowel. where would the teams up there get players from? the far north teams basically rely on players from owen sound coming home. that's why shallow lake is junk, because the best ones from owen sound go to port elgin.

those teams are reliant on players from that area coming home, which is fine, but guys like garrett meurs don't come around very often. more often its jr. c and the odd jr. b players who come from those towns.

i think had the league, specifically clinton, kept going the way it was going, it would have killed a good number of teams who can't go out bring in players from london/guelph/kitchener etc.

[ramrod]

mrbuzz, I am not sure that you meant to say "far north teams" as in plural or if you are just talking about Shallow Lake. Shallow Lake is kind of in a unique postion as it is cut off geographically in a lot of directions, but a lot of the northern teams actually have an advantage in their proximity to OHA Teir 2 Junior A. ie Orangeville, Newmarket, Markham, Georgetown, etc,etc as well as one of the best Provincial Junior C teams in all of Ontario, Alliston which for all intents and purpose's is pretty much stronger than a lot of Junior B teams that are closer to the southern senior teams. Then you have Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge, Brampton, Listowel, Guelph, Elmira, in the GOJHL not to mention two Major Junior A teams, Owen Sound and Barrie and Ontario University teams in Waterloo, and Guelph. These teams are all within an hours drive of a lot of the northern senior teams that you refer to.
It is always brought up that Clinton brings in players from London, sure they had a couple but why did those players choose to drive an hour to play hockey in Clinton, are they being paid ? I don't know. Are they getting gas paid ? I don't know but I would guess that they probably are but those guys also drive to every game as they don't take a bus to away games like a lot of teams do. My guess is that those players choose to drive an hour there and an hour home giving up their weekends because they like the good hard competitive hockey that the senior hockey provides. Again why did these guys choose Clinton over Tavistock or Tilsonburg or any other team that is an hour drive, my guess is because they were asked if they would want to play in a competitive league at no expence to them, that is a tool all teams have.
I think back a few years not to long ago when Clinton was a fairly weak team, they didn't do well in the playoffs and they didn't draw very good crowds, what has changed ? they have always been that hour from London and yet they still weren't very good, what has changed ? they brought in executives and coach's who were passionate and who put in time and leg work to recruit players who had played at high levels of the game junior A, B, university, semi-pro, players who wanted to continue playing the game they love at a higher level as they were not ready to play in the Sunday morning beer league. If, and again I don't know, but if Clinton is paying players to play I would hardly think that they are the only ones who do, Miles McClean, Greg Virgo and Theo Peckham are just a couple of players that come to mind that have bounced around from Saugeen to diferent teams and back again and I am sure that there was/is an incentive to do so.
So to wrap up my rant, almost every senior team has good teams and players within their proximity to draw and recruit from and they all have the same tools at their disposal to entice these players to play for them so in that sence Clinton is not unique. I know executives and coachs are usually voluntary positions but they have to be dedicated and willing to do the work it takes to recruit these players if they want to improve their clubs. As a paying fan I have no complaints about most of the hockey games that I have attended this year as it is much more interesting watching a close game as opposed to a blow out, however I just hope that the league dosen't further "dummy down" the league just so as teams like Shallow Lake and Lucknow etc, etc, don't fold.

[tavifan]

This is a great discussion with lots of good points. I like it.

On a side note, how does an old fart like me find the dang box scores and points for players in the playoffs? Every time I think I have found it, it's the darn regular season.

Anyone?

[misbehavein]

Tavifan....gamesheetinc.com/stats/ then type in woaa and you should be all set to see them

[tavifan]

Awesome! thanks.